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	<title>Comments on: Three Open Source Tricks For Old Media Dogs</title>
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	<link>http://whurley.com/open-innovation/2008/12/17/three-open-source-tricks-for-old-media-dogs/</link>
	<description>evil genius (tm)</description>
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		<title>By: GeekAustin.org &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Whurley launches ideas.openaustin.org</title>
		<link>http://whurley.com/open-innovation/2008/12/17/three-open-source-tricks-for-old-media-dogs/comment-page-1/#comment-1804</link>
		<dc:creator>GeekAustin.org &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Whurley launches ideas.openaustin.org</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 11 May 2009 00:24:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://whurley.com/?p=520#comment-1804</guid>
		<description>[...] long-time open source advocate, used this as an opportunity to test his recent ideas on crowdsourcing and open collaboration, and quietly began work on a platform to bring the process out into the [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] long-time open source advocate, used this as an opportunity to test his recent ideas on crowdsourcing and open collaboration, and quietly began work on a platform to bring the process out into the [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Andy Nguyen</title>
		<link>http://whurley.com/open-innovation/2008/12/17/three-open-source-tricks-for-old-media-dogs/comment-page-1/#comment-268</link>
		<dc:creator>Andy Nguyen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Jan 2009 19:14:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://whurley.com/?p=520#comment-268</guid>
		<description>videogame writer guy Says:
&gt; I’d have to agree with Michelle Greer on this one… if there’s no gatekeeper on the content, there’s no value.

OTOH, I&#039;d say that having a gatekeeper does not necessarily imply value.

The value that news outlets offer is not merely information.  You can get plenty of that on the &#039;Net.  The value is that such information is timely _and_ vetted _and_ available.  A &quot;community&quot; of amateur news reporters might produce timely voluminous news, but when Joe Reporter says &quot;casualty figure is in the 10,000&#039;s&quot;, do you believe him?  Joe R. has nothing to lose if he&#039;s sloppy in his news gathering and fact checking.  As for availability:  how about news on the Iraq war?  Can one (or would one want to) count on amateur reporters for that?

Assuming that (time and vetted and available) news is of value and is what people want, news organizations need to adopt the &quot;indirect revenue&quot; model of other Web enterprises.  Offer (time and vetted and available) news for free, which would result in eyeballs, which would translate to revenue.  It works for Google with search and for Facebook, Myspace, etc. with social networking;  it may also work for news.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>videogame writer guy Says:<br />
&gt; I’d have to agree with Michelle Greer on this one… if there’s no gatekeeper on the content, there’s no value.</p>
<p>OTOH, I&#8217;d say that having a gatekeeper does not necessarily imply value.</p>
<p>The value that news outlets offer is not merely information.  You can get plenty of that on the &#8216;Net.  The value is that such information is timely _and_ vetted _and_ available.  A &#8220;community&#8221; of amateur news reporters might produce timely voluminous news, but when Joe Reporter says &#8220;casualty figure is in the 10,000&#8217;s&#8221;, do you believe him?  Joe R. has nothing to lose if he&#8217;s sloppy in his news gathering and fact checking.  As for availability:  how about news on the Iraq war?  Can one (or would one want to) count on amateur reporters for that?</p>
<p>Assuming that (time and vetted and available) news is of value and is what people want, news organizations need to adopt the &#8220;indirect revenue&#8221; model of other Web enterprises.  Offer (time and vetted and available) news for free, which would result in eyeballs, which would translate to revenue.  It works for Google with search and for Facebook, Myspace, etc. with social networking;  it may also work for news.</p>
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		<title>By: videogame writer guy</title>
		<link>http://whurley.com/open-innovation/2008/12/17/three-open-source-tricks-for-old-media-dogs/comment-page-1/#comment-242</link>
		<dc:creator>videogame writer guy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 03 Jan 2009 05:04:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://whurley.com/?p=520#comment-242</guid>
		<description>I&#039;d have to agree with Michelle Greer on this one... if there&#039;s no gatekeeper on the content, there&#039;s no value.

Of course, dropping the gates would galvanize participation and greatly reduce the cost of content creation.

If you ask me, ESPN.com has the closest thing to a winning formula with their &quot;insider&quot; memberships. The premium content is always sexy, timely, and exclusive.

Unfortunately, no one is going to buy a membership to read timely bulletins about the latest city council proclamation.

However, local newspapers have something that ESPN.com doesn&#039;t. They&#039;re &lt;em&gt;local&lt;/em&gt;. They&#039;re right in the midst of it, seeing it happen, and they can interact with the community at any time. They&#039;re part of our identity. Being mentioned in the local paper still means something. They can develop rich content that appeals to civic pride and touches on local issues; no one else will.

The implementation? That is an exercise left to the reader. :)

videogame writer guy</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;d have to agree with Michelle Greer on this one&#8230; if there&#8217;s no gatekeeper on the content, there&#8217;s no value.</p>
<p>Of course, dropping the gates would galvanize participation and greatly reduce the cost of content creation.</p>
<p>If you ask me, ESPN.com has the closest thing to a winning formula with their &#8220;insider&#8221; memberships. The premium content is always sexy, timely, and exclusive.</p>
<p>Unfortunately, no one is going to buy a membership to read timely bulletins about the latest city council proclamation.</p>
<p>However, local newspapers have something that ESPN.com doesn&#8217;t. They&#8217;re <em>local</em>. They&#8217;re right in the midst of it, seeing it happen, and they can interact with the community at any time. They&#8217;re part of our identity. Being mentioned in the local paper still means something. They can develop rich content that appeals to civic pride and touches on local issues; no one else will.</p>
<p>The implementation? That is an exercise left to the reader. <img src='http://whurley.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>videogame writer guy</p>
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		<title>By: Three Open Source Tricks For Old Media Dogs &#171; The Bettizen</title>
		<link>http://whurley.com/open-innovation/2008/12/17/three-open-source-tricks-for-old-media-dogs/comment-page-1/#comment-227</link>
		<dc:creator>Three Open Source Tricks For Old Media Dogs &#171; The Bettizen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Dec 2008 14:00:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://whurley.com/?p=520#comment-227</guid>
		<description>[...] Low-Income&#160;Households    Three Open Source Tricks For Old Media&#160;Dogs December 31, 2008   Whurley is spot on, old newspaper dachshunds must adopt new tricks if they&#8217;re going to remain center [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Low-Income&nbsp;Households    Three Open Source Tricks For Old Media&nbsp;Dogs December 31, 2008   Whurley is spot on, old newspaper dachshunds must adopt new tricks if they&#8217;re going to remain center [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Mike Chelen</title>
		<link>http://whurley.com/open-innovation/2008/12/17/three-open-source-tricks-for-old-media-dogs/comment-page-1/#comment-212</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike Chelen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Dec 2008 00:55:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://whurley.com/?p=520#comment-212</guid>
		<description>The Creative Commons licenses are well recommended because their use can increase readership and revenue. Free and paid models should operate in concert as a newspaper may publish open content while continuing advertising and paid subscriptions.
CC BY-NC-SA is preferable to &quot;all rights reserved&quot;, what about considering even less restrictive licenses? For example if the content can be republished for profit, that results in more readers of the material and a wider community. These are the most valuable assets, and so to remove more barriers to sharing and reuse it would be even better to publish under public domain dedication.

@Sanjay Nasta
A robust and active community brings more readers, and that is vitally important to authors.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Creative Commons licenses are well recommended because their use can increase readership and revenue. Free and paid models should operate in concert as a newspaper may publish open content while continuing advertising and paid subscriptions.<br />
CC BY-NC-SA is preferable to &#8220;all rights reserved&#8221;, what about considering even less restrictive licenses? For example if the content can be republished for profit, that results in more readers of the material and a wider community. These are the most valuable assets, and so to remove more barriers to sharing and reuse it would be even better to publish under public domain dedication.</p>
<p>@Sanjay Nasta<br />
A robust and active community brings more readers, and that is vitally important to authors.</p>
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		<title>By: pligg.com</title>
		<link>http://whurley.com/open-innovation/2008/12/17/three-open-source-tricks-for-old-media-dogs/comment-page-1/#comment-194</link>
		<dc:creator>pligg.com</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Dec 2008 02:53:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://whurley.com/?p=520#comment-194</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;Three Open Source Tricks For Old Media Dogs...&lt;/strong&gt;

Popular print media outlets are dying.  It doesn’t matter if you’re a small town rag or the world’s best-known brand, progress doesn’t discriminate.  How bad is it?  The New York Times (which owns the Boston Globe and many regional papers) owes...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>Three Open Source Tricks For Old Media Dogs&#8230;</strong></p>
<p>Popular print media outlets are dying.  It doesn’t matter if you’re a small town rag or the world’s best-known brand, progress doesn’t discriminate.  How bad is it?  The New York Times (which owns the Boston Globe and many regional papers) owes&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Tom Prete</title>
		<link>http://whurley.com/open-innovation/2008/12/17/three-open-source-tricks-for-old-media-dogs/comment-page-1/#comment-190</link>
		<dc:creator>Tom Prete</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Dec 2008 20:18:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://whurley.com/?p=520#comment-190</guid>
		<description>As an old-school newspaperman trying to transition into a modern media environment (see http://spot.us/pitches/39 for my foray into crowd-funded journalism), I certainly find a lot to think about here. Thank you for presenting these ideas.

The most interesting point, to me, is about community being more important than content. That seems to be true on a certain level. Note the Obama campaign, for instance. They got it that it&#039;s no longer about donations per se, it&#039;s about membership -- belonging. But community ultimately is bankrupt and irrelevant to everyone outside the community unless there&#039;s good content, too. If we don&#039;t have anything to say, all of the jabbering signifies nothing. In some ways, allowing only the consumers to direct the coverage enables our natural but unhealthy tendency toward the sensational.

But for newspapers and other news organizations, money is still going to be the bottom line. And I don&#039;t see a complete case here that explains how all of this makes enough money for papers. I would be greatly interested to read further posts along this line, though.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As an old-school newspaperman trying to transition into a modern media environment (see<a href="http://spot.us/pitches/39"> </a><a href="http://spot.us/pitches/39" rel="nofollow">http://spot.us/pitches/39</a> for my foray into crowd-funded journalism), I certainly find a lot to think about here. Thank you for presenting these ideas.</p>
<p>The most interesting point, to me, is about community being more important than content. That seems to be true on a certain level. Note the Obama campaign, for instance. They got it that it&#8217;s no longer about donations per se, it&#8217;s about membership &#8212; belonging. But community ultimately is bankrupt and irrelevant to everyone outside the community unless there&#8217;s good content, too. If we don&#8217;t have anything to say, all of the jabbering signifies nothing. In some ways, allowing only the consumers to direct the coverage enables our natural but unhealthy tendency toward the sensational.</p>
<p>But for newspapers and other news organizations, money is still going to be the bottom line. And I don&#8217;t see a complete case here that explains how all of this makes enough money for papers. I would be greatly interested to read further posts along this line, though.</p>
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		<title>By: Michelle Greer</title>
		<link>http://whurley.com/open-innovation/2008/12/17/three-open-source-tricks-for-old-media-dogs/comment-page-1/#comment-189</link>
		<dc:creator>Michelle Greer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Dec 2008 16:36:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://whurley.com/?p=520#comment-189</guid>
		<description>Sorry, Creative Commons will never happen w/ newspapers, and I don&#039;t blame them.  I write for traditional media, and it&#039;s my job to bring eyeballs to a certain page so those eyeballs see ads.  Creative Commons means you are using my content somewhere else, which means I don&#039;t get those views.  That sucks.  I don&#039;t need the backlinks.  

BTW, Whurley, I happen to know for a fact that you still read traditional media.  Why do we read traditional media?  Because they have to be accountable.  They have a reputation to uphold and shareholders to appease.  I do believe journalists should be more accepting of user generated content, but someone needs to act as a filter for what is right and what is just crap.  A lot of user generated content is useful, but some of it is just self-promotional noise.  Why would I want to read that?

Traditional media should be much more accepting of interactivity and community, but creative commons would put a lot of people out of work.  How about this: a newspaper puts up something like Qik on their site and says &quot;Ask the Domain developers questions, live at 10 PM at www.newssite.com&quot;.  THAT&#039;S interactive media and no, I&#039;d never put that up under creative commons.  That&#039;s what traditional media has the power and influence to do, they just don&#039;t do it for some reason.

Justin.tv is a good example of this.  You can chat w others during a football game.  It rocks.  Again, traditional media is not doing this.

I compare it to making the movie &quot;Star Wars&quot; as a silent film in my blog post here:
http://www.michellesblog.net/marketing-for-the-web/are-journalists-just-making-the-silent-star-wars</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sorry, Creative Commons will never happen w/ newspapers, and I don&#8217;t blame them.  I write for traditional media, and it&#8217;s my job to bring eyeballs to a certain page so those eyeballs see ads.  Creative Commons means you are using my content somewhere else, which means I don&#8217;t get those views.  That sucks.  I don&#8217;t need the backlinks.  </p>
<p>BTW, Whurley, I happen to know for a fact that you still read traditional media.  Why do we read traditional media?  Because they have to be accountable.  They have a reputation to uphold and shareholders to appease.  I do believe journalists should be more accepting of user generated content, but someone needs to act as a filter for what is right and what is just crap.  A lot of user generated content is useful, but some of it is just self-promotional noise.  Why would I want to read that?</p>
<p>Traditional media should be much more accepting of interactivity and community, but creative commons would put a lot of people out of work.  How about this: a newspaper puts up something like Qik on their site and says &#8220;Ask the Domain developers questions, live at 10 PM at <a href="http://www.newssite.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.newssite.com</a>&#8220;.  THAT&#8217;S interactive media and no, I&#8217;d never put that up under creative commons.  That&#8217;s what traditional media has the power and influence to do, they just don&#8217;t do it for some reason.</p>
<p>Justin.tv is a good example of this.  You can chat w others during a football game.  It rocks.  Again, traditional media is not doing this.</p>
<p>I compare it to making the movie &#8220;Star Wars&#8221; as a silent film in my blog post here:<a href="http://www.michellesblog.net/marketing-for-the-web/are-journalists-just-making-the-silent-star-wars"><br />
</a><a href="http://www.michell...the-silent-star-wars" rel="nofollow">http://www.michell&#8230;the-silent-star-wars</a></p>
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		<title>By: Jeff Beckham</title>
		<link>http://whurley.com/open-innovation/2008/12/17/three-open-source-tricks-for-old-media-dogs/comment-page-1/#comment-177</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeff Beckham</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Dec 2008 19:48:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://whurley.com/?p=520#comment-177</guid>
		<description>Absolutely agree on the last two points (community over content and influence rather than control). News companies are making better progress on the community over content aspect than any of the other points here, but they still have a tough time letting go of control.

Great idea in point #1 on Creative Commons. I&#039;ve thought for a while that news companies should deliver their content to work in any format or device, but I like the idea of extending that to allow for other to add and contribute.

It&#039;s exciting to think of new business models for news companies. Some of the best opportunities lie in combining news coverage and community platforms, or in a reverse syndication model, where instead of charging for sending you my stories, I pay you a share of the ad revenue I get from traffic you send my way.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Absolutely agree on the last two points (community over content and influence rather than control). News companies are making better progress on the community over content aspect than any of the other points here, but they still have a tough time letting go of control.</p>
<p>Great idea in point #1 on Creative Commons. I&#8217;ve thought for a while that news companies should deliver their content to work in any format or device, but I like the idea of extending that to allow for other to add and contribute.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s exciting to think of new business models for news companies. Some of the best opportunities lie in combining news coverage and community platforms, or in a reverse syndication model, where instead of charging for sending you my stories, I pay you a share of the ad revenue I get from traffic you send my way.</p>
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		<title>By: Sanjay Nasta</title>
		<link>http://whurley.com/open-innovation/2008/12/17/three-open-source-tricks-for-old-media-dogs/comment-page-1/#comment-175</link>
		<dc:creator>Sanjay Nasta</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Dec 2008 00:01:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://whurley.com/?p=520#comment-175</guid>
		<description>It is rare that a business can make a transfer to a complete new business model.  Most businesses fail...and from thoses ashes new businesses are reborn.   

Two comments resonated:  It&#039;s not the content, it&#039;s the community.  You&#039;re right, a directed community has tremendous value--it&#039;s what we&#039;re trying to build at elearningcouncil.com (and you can guess what that community is focused on).  It has already provided value to the folks who participate.  Does a non-focused community have the same value?

Any thoughts on what kind of rewards to provide content creators.  That&#039;s my biggest problem at ELC.  It&#039;s just a few folks who provide content...being a non-profit it&#039;s hard to provide monetary rewards.  We&#039;re not getting enough contributed content to provide recognition based rewards.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It is rare that a business can make a transfer to a complete new business model.  Most businesses fail&#8230;and from thoses ashes new businesses are reborn.   </p>
<p>Two comments resonated:  It&#8217;s not the content, it&#8217;s the community.  You&#8217;re right, a directed community has tremendous value&#8211;it&#8217;s what we&#8217;re trying to build at elearningcouncil.com (and you can guess what that community is focused on).  It has already provided value to the folks who participate.  Does a non-focused community have the same value?</p>
<p>Any thoughts on what kind of rewards to provide content creators.  That&#8217;s my biggest problem at ELC.  It&#8217;s just a few folks who provide content&#8230;being a non-profit it&#8217;s hard to provide monetary rewards.  We&#8217;re not getting enough contributed content to provide recognition based rewards.</p>
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